1999 Salary Survey chat with MCP Magazine Editors

 

Date: Thursday, June 24, 1999

 

Sponsored by St. Bernard Software http://www.stbernard.com

 

Host Moderator says: Hello, all! The Salary Survey chat is now live. This chat is now moderated. To ask a question, use your mouse to highlight the Moderator in the member pane, type your question in the text box, then use the Whisper button or Ctrl+W to post it to the moderator. Moderator will then post the question to the chat window in the order received.

 

And remember, chat attendees have a chance to win MCP TechMentor T-shirts, Resource Central subscriptions, and self-study products. This chat sponsored by St. Bernard Software http://www.stbernard.com .

 

Tonight, the MCP Magazine Editors -- Linda Briggs, Di Schaffhauser, and Michael Domingo -- will field the questions you have on the Salary Survey.

 

Host LindaBriggs says: Hi everyone. I'm looking forward to hearing your reactions to the survey...especially yours, "Underpaid"! ;)

 

First question from Dermot is: Most of the salary surveys I have seen have been unrealistically high. How can we be sure of the accuracy?

 

Host LindaBriggs says: Dermot: Well, remember that these are averages. Your area of the country and your experience play heavily into salary as well, remember.

 

Vikras asks: I reside in Mumbai, India and have completed my MCSE+INTERNET. I'm about to give my A+ certification exams and then complete Cisco Certification Courses (Both ICRC and ACRC). What do you think is the potential for someone with these certifications? Is CNE necessary too?

 

Host LindaBriggs says: Where do you plan to live? Major metropolitan areas, especially New York, Washington DC, and the San Francisco Bay area, show markedly higher compensation than other areas. Equally important: how much experience do you have? See charts 3 and 10.

 

And If you're just starting out, Chart 3 shows that an MCSE with a year or less of experience averages $46,900. Or according to Chart 10, an MCSE who also has at least six months experience with Cisco averages $67,000. Hope that helps.

 

Host Dian says: Remember, folks, the online version of the salary survey goes into greater detail than we could squeeze into the magazine. Check it out, if you haven't already.

 

Host LindaBriggs says: Finally, Cisco is a hot skill to have, but I'm sure you already know that.

 

Two related questions:

 

Rodney asks: How do you recommend an MCSE present the survey to his employer?  Under the door in Brown wrap?

 

Dermot asks: How can we introduce the salary survey to our bosses to show how much we are worth?

 

Host LindaBriggs says: Rodney, that's great! Microsoft has prepared some materials on the value of certs that might help. Also, check out Harry Brelsford's Pro Speak column in the July issue. he's got some great tips on figuring out your value and selling it. Finally, if you don't think you're earnng what you should. maybe it's time to pick up some negotiating skills.

 

Rodney asks: Will the MCPMag put up a link to Download the salary survey in one file?

 

Host LindaBriggs says: We hear ya, Rodney. We're hoping to post a PDF file shortly to Resource Central, our subscription area.

 

AvatarFX asks: How does one decipher wether or not the listed rates are for salaried permanent employees or contracted consultants??

 

Host LindaBriggs says: We removed all consultant salaries from the totals, so it's just salaried folks, AvatarFX. For consultant numbers, go to the extra stuff on the Web site. We have some numbers there.

 

"J Sealock" asks: Linda, I agree the salaries are high.  I worked for Wal-Mart home offices, Southwestern Energy and I was offered jobs with Tyson Foods headquarters and JBHUNT and none of them pay what you reported in the survey.  But I see they are averages...more...

 

how can I market my MCSE and A+ certs to more network type positions for higher pay?  I currently make 38,000 working with Desktop design and support.

 

Host LindaBriggs says: That does sound low compared to our numbers, J. Even for the South, which is historically low. You don't say how many years of experience you have, nor whether you're in a major metro area or not. Those are big factors.

 

csims asks: On Microsoft Skills 2000 Website under the different job listings they continually say that they would prefer that people with Experience go after an MCP or MCSE. Why dont they "advertise" this more to people looking into becoming certified?

 

Host LindaBriggs says: Good question. And it's not just Microsoft. Cert is big big business these days. We try to stress the importance of expereince in the magazine and in the salary survey. Check the article, and other things we've written. But it's hard to hear that message sometimes, especially when big numbers are being thrown around.

 

underpaid asks: Will the Y2k have any effect on jobs availability and consequently, salaries?

 

Host LindaBriggs says: Hard to say. Y2K projects will drop off, but other projects that we're seeing companies postponing this year will be picked back up instead, like migrating to Win2K, perhaps. Or upgrading networks. Or security.

 

Dermot asks: When the survey is being prepared, what efforts are made to screen out Salary "Skewers", like the bunch of millionare MCSEs in Redmond?

 

Host LindaBriggs says: I'm glad you asked that. We have our research firm kick out salaries over $250,000, and under $20,000. So BillG isn't part of it...

 

Host Dian says: Dermot, dandy question! This won't make you a millionaire, but you've just won, Exam Cram: Networking Essentials," courtesy of Coriolis. Just whisper your mailing details to Moderator!

 

In the section for salary by other certifications, Citrix technology was not included. With the ongoing growth of thin client computing, why was this popular technology not included? As you can guess, I am Citrix Certified and am interested in finding out how this skill measures up in demand and salary demands.

 

Host LindaBriggs says: Great idea. We obviously need to include that next year. Thanks. We do have an article coming up on Citrix certification in a few months, so we're not completely oblivious. Watch for it!

 

Rodney asks: Could you do a survey on just consultants??

 

Host LindaBriggs says: Well, the survey is costly for us. We do break out some numbers for consultants at the Web site -- much more detail than is in the print mag.

 

MiniByte asks: It might be interesting to have a report on what brokers charge and what employees receive

 

Host LindaBriggs says: MiniByte, that's a great question. We did break out those numbers on the Web site to some extent. Probably should put something in the print mag next year.

 

m_brown asks; can one increase their salary faster by  job hopping or by staying at one company.

 

Host LindaBriggs says: We asked that question on the survey, and found surprising results. Our numbers showed that moving to a new job didn't necessarily correlate to a higher salary, but if you feel like your stagnating, or at plateau, might be time to look around. Good luck!

 

underpaid asks: What do you think will be the trend of increases this year ?

 

Host LindaBriggs says: You mean 2000, right? Well, to be honest, I was surprised to see that salaries for MCSEs went up as much as they did. Since we all know that lots of newcomers are being drawn to the title. making predictions makes me nervous, but I bet we'll see a similar increase into 2000. Now don't hold me to that!

 

m_brown asks: Which is better, a number of certifications i.e., A+, CNE, MCSE or MCSE plus experience?

 

Host LindaBriggs says: In general, I'm a big proponent of multiple certifications. They simply reflect the reality of the world that network admins work in – cross-platform, multi-vendor, etc.

 

But you can't get much of anywhere without experience. Since a cert isn't worth much without the field experience to back it up, I'd gradually earn new certs while working in the field using the technologies you're getting certified on, etc.

 

hiriseco asks: I currently hold MCP for Win95 and TCP/IP, but ONLY have a GED. How will this impact my salary? . I am currently working for SMC Networks as a Technical Enginner (Second level support, testing, etc.). Currently makeing 38K and looking at the survey shows I am underpaid.

 

Host LindaBriggs says: Our survey showed that salary went up as education increased. However, a significant number of respondents had no college degree -- not that uncommon in IT. I'd say it depends on your career path. For straight techie, you may be OK. For a managerial path, you may want to get that degree eventually.

 

longye asks: Why the salary survey not include MCDBA? Do u have idea how much is it?

 

Host LindaBriggs says: There aren't enough MCDBAs yet to measure, Longye. But check out Chart 10 -- it shows the salary for an MCSE doing data warehousing at $62,200. We'll measure that title next year. Chart 9 also shows salary by job title, and includes DBA -- average $59,400.

 

underpaid asks: I'm an MCSD, MCSE with about 4 years of development experience. What region of the US would be best for me and how much should I aim for ?

 

Host LindaBriggs says: The Bay Area is hottest for just about everything -- but check out the cost of housing ;). As a developer, it's easier. You can probably command a premium just about anywhere, with enough experience.

 

kas asks: Do employers contribute any feed back as to the validity of the survey?

 

Host LindaBriggs says: We hear mostly from readers -- some tell us it's too high, some that it's too low. One thing we'd like to do in the future is to include a survey of employers -- "What do you pay the MCPs on your staff?"

 

Rodney asks: When you count experiance, for let say an MCSE, do you count only NT experiance or would the individuals total Computer career experiance count?

 

Host LindaBriggs says: Rodney, we measured both. Chart 3 is specifically "years have you held a job that specifically involves networking/programming." That's not specific to Microsoft.

 

rog asks: people have to start somewhere. What do you suggest

 

Host LindaBriggs says: We're get asked that a lot. We've run articles in the past on how to get some hands-on experience if you're a newbie (see the June 1998 issue specifically). We're also planning another such article in the next few months -- we know it's an issue with a lot of you.

 

m_brown has an interesting comment: The uncertainty of recouping the certification investment may be why there are so many MCPs and considerably fewer MCSEs

 

Host LindaBriggs says: Hmmm... what uncertainty is that? Trying to figure out the benefits?

 

anne asks: To supplement the salary survey, will mcpmag be doing any articles concerning how important other factors (work ethic, enthusiasm etc.) are in the formula for career success?  Sometimes, it seems people are have tunnel-vision for certification.

 

Host LindaBriggs says: Thanks, Anne. Those are great topics for our Professionally Speaking column. I agree -- sometimes we get so-o-o-o-ooo caught up in certification. That's just ONE component of a successful career.

 

ledwards asks: Do you think that the high number of people being certified MCSE with the help of goverment funding in Canada will lower the average salary in Canada?

 

Host LindaBriggs says: That's a great article idea for our new international area on the Web site. I'm not sure what affect that will have -- I'd like to know more about the program. We'll keep an eye on it. And have you participated in our international salary survey online yet?

 

I am A+ Certified and MCSE certified. I have 5 years experience working with Windows NT and I am making under $40,000 in the Central United States. Am I being paid what I should expect to be paid or are my talents worth more to other companies?

 

Host LindaBriggs says: Well, based on our numbers and what you've told me, you're making less than the average MCSE in your area with your experience. But other factors can come into play... are you moving ahead in your job? Do you enjoy what you're doing? Maybe your company doesn't realize the value of your cert. If that's true, and you're not happy there, it might be time to shop around.

 

John asks: What salary stats do you have medium sized cities - such as omaha, NE. I've had an A+ for 5 years, CNA for 4years, 2 CNEs for one plus years, and am one test away from a MCSE. I make in the low 40s. How do i fit into your averages?

 

Host LindaBriggs says: Sorry, John, it's tough for us to measure those because there just aren't enough folks in those areas. I suggest you use a combination of numbers, and allow something for the fact that the cost of living is probably lower where you are. And the *quality* of life is probably higher? ;)

 

"J Sealock" asks: how quickly will MCSE certs become outdated after the release of Windows 2000 in October?

 

Host LindaBriggs says: I wish I knew, John. Microsoft says it's still measuring job skills to decide what the track will be. I'm sure you'll have plenty of time -- companies will be using NT 4.0 for years to come, and Microsoft is very real-world about when they finally pull an exam.

 

Host Dian says: Also, Microsoft has stated that it won't retire the NT 4.0 exams until the *successor* exams to Win2K are released. In other words, you gotta few years if you're NT 4.0 certified.

 

longye asks: What do u think impact from this survey result? Will most employers follow this salary trend?

 

Host LindaBriggs says: Some readers tell us that they get a compensation increase based on our numbers; others tell us that they feel better knowing that they're in the ballpark. There's no doubt that the very existence of the salary survey increases interest in MS certification in general... I just hope the focus stays on experience and other factors, not *just* certs.

 

m_brown asks: How many MCSEs are employed as contractors and how many are actually hired by the company they work at?

 

Dermot asks: Cisco has a very worthy certification, Nortel is coming out with an equivalent soon. How important do you think WAN/Routing certification is going to be in future surveys?

 

Host LindaBriggs says: Well, among our readers, about 30 percent (that's all certs, not just MCSEs) are consultants. I don't know the numbers from Microsoft, but we can extrapolate from that...

 

Host LindaBriggs says: Very important. Just look at where companies are going today. Expect to see us writing and talking about more and more other certifications in the magazine... simply because we think that our readers are interested in extending their careers that way.

 

jim_lodato asks: The survey shows expeience of less than 1 year. How about entry level positions?

 

Host LindaBriggs says: Thanks, Jim. I got a few emails to that effect. Chat 3 actually says "1 yr. or less," but I think we need to get even more granular within that first year.

 

potter_c asks: With the recent focus on "Paper" MCSE's do you think that salaries will increase with MCSE Windows2000 since MS is trying harder to make the exams more creditable?

 

Host LindaBriggs says:Depends what you mean by "paper." I think that Chart 3 shows that salaries grow quickly with experience, regardless of certs. That's true anywhere in IT. I think salaries will continue to go up throughout IT; tune in next year and we'll find out.

 

Final question: shambuck23 asks: I noticed that the San Francisco Bay Area salaries were much higher than the rest of the nation.  Do the salaries from the Bay Area, specifically, Silicon Valley, impact the rest of the nations salaries?

 

Host LindaBriggs says: Oh, they probably pull things up, just as folks in underpaid areas pull it down. Every IT salary survey I've seen shows peaks in areas like the West Coast and New York, so I'm sure it have an effect.

 

Host Moderator says: Whew -- great questions, everyone! This chat is over and is no longer moderated. Thanks for joining us, and congratulations to the winners of tonight's prizes. We'll archive the transcript and post it Monday at http://www.mcpmag.com/mcpchat